tv MSNBC Live With Thomas Roberts MSNBC September 8, 2015 10:00am-12:01pm PDT
marriage licenses. the release after her attorneys filed an emergency request for the governor to accommodate her religious convictions. people have been gathering to support her. rally is scheduled to begin at 3:00 p.m. eastern today and her case gained the support of mike huckabee and ted cruz who planned to visit her in jail today. this is a suisse moving case and fast moving development that happened in the last 15 minutes. msnbc's sarah dallof is in kentucky. update us on when this was approved for her release and when we might see this cakim da emerge. >> reporter: when she might emerge is the big question. her lawyers didn't know ten minutes ago. the order is coming as a surprise to a lot of people. the court back in session today following the long holiday weekend. i had a chance to read through the order and in it the judge said the plaintiffs filed a report as requested by the court stating that yes in fact they
were able to obtain marriage licenses, from the deputy clerks who began issues them on friday. because of that, the order says the court is satisfied, the office is fulfilling its obligation to issue licenses to all eligible couples, and that they now are ordering the release of kim davis. she still is ordered not to interfere with the issuance of licenses, essentially her attorney says this is putting us back at square one that while the deputies are still issuing these licenses they contain davis' name and title. she sees that as support from her office and her as an individual of same-sex marriage, something she says she has religious objections to. so it remains to be seen how this all plays out, after she is released and goes back to work, she has now spent five nights in jail cell 151 reading her bible to pass the time. we are waiting for word when she will emerge. meanwhile that rally scheduled to start at least for the moment at 3:00 one of the featured
speaker, gop presidential candidate mike huckabee and ted cruz announced this morning we will be stopping by. he planned to visit kim dave this jail but this could be wrapped up and she could be out of there in that time. thomas, back to you. >> explain as we look at the issue in a larger state context, 120 county clerks in kentucky. are there others following the lead and not issuing licenses to same-sex couples? >> reporter: there are thomas and in more than one state. here in kentucky we have the k.c. county clerk refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, as it the whitly county clerk. they say they're waiting for paperwork, it names a husband and wife and they need more gender neutral terms and said they were waiting on a legal ruling to remove the clerk's name from the license. whitley county clerk for them they turned away same-s, no one
approached them for a license. why aren't these clerks being pursued by legal means? the simple answer is they have not been sued. the cases have not yet, thomas gone to court. >> sarah, we're going to come back to you. keep us posted on the activity that you see there and if davis does emerge, let us know. kim davis is the focus of our poll question of the day, as we await this rally that's going to take place in kentucky. what do you think, is davis right or wrong or standing her ground about same-sex marriage and being against it, feeling she has a religious objection? the pulse is live so weigh in at pulse.msnbc.com. people are sharing our thoughts with frances rivera. what are people saying, frances? >> reporter: interesting to hear when you ask some of the folks hear what they think. joining me is emily, she say new yorker and she weighs in right now and when i asked you when it comes to this kentucky county
clerk kim davis, is she right or wrong in standing her ground? >> she's in the wrong i think. in the u.s. we have separation of church and state for a reason. she needs to do her job and if she can't do her job that shouldn't be the job for her. you have to go with the laws of the country, not with the laws that you personally follow, even though we're all allowed to do that, we can't put it on others. >> reporter: you've been following this. the latest development that you didn't need me to tell you. you know she's going to be released. >> you can't keep her in jail forever but i think the fact that she went to jail, you break the law you have to go to jail. yes, eventually, that's fine that she gets out. >> reporter: interesting from this point on, now that she's out if she stands her ground and continues to fight, your thoughts? >> i mean if i don't do my job i get fired. so -- you know, probably the same for her. >> reporter: emily, thank you very much. very black and white, in her perspective and her situation, she was elected to do that job and according to other viewers here we've been talking to, they should do the same.
>> frances, thank you. the pulse is live, reminder, pulse.msnbc.com. >> we move on to politics and the polling gets worse for hillary clinton. new one just out from monmouth university shows bernie sanders and vice president biden are gaining. the "new york times" is reporting that the clinton camp wants to shake up her image, they want her to show humor, heart, and they are planning to show her spontaneity. yes, they have decided to plan spontaneity. a new poll from nbc news and mar ist finds clinton less popular in iowa and new hampshire democrats. on monday the vice president joked about the possibility of a run. >> nobody to stand the -- >> biden for president! >> no, i -- you have to talk to my wife about that. i've got to talk to my wife about that. but guys, i've taken too much of your time. back in delaware, if you make
someone stand on a hard floor for more than 15 minutes, you lose all their votes. i don't want to lose your -- i don't want to lose your friendship. you've been my friends -- you've been my friends my whole career and i really mean it. >> so let's talk about this more now. we've got two of our best reporters from msnbc covering, alex seitwald and kasie hunton with a potential biden 02016. alex, we look at the new polling figures and compare them to what nbc news had put out there. hillary clinton is losing to jeb bush, and donald trump in iowa. as we look at new hampshire, she's barely beating bush there and losing to trump. what kind of state is her campaign in right now especially'"new york times" is correct and they're trying to pivot to planned spontaneity? >> well, it's certainly not the state that they had hoped to be in right now. hillary clinton started the summer as the undisputed
front-runner. see as basically freezing out the entire rest of the democratic field. now she's behind bernie sanders in new hampshire, and with him breathing down her neck in iowa, and you have this huge potential of joe biden getting in the race and completely shaking things up. her campaign says all along that they anticipated a competitive democratic primary and this is expected but you don't shake up a campaign if things are going well. >> we talk about what we look at with the "new york times" and the story from them talking about the intelligence review of her e-mails. what more can you tell us about that? >> right, not a lot surprising in here, two e-mails previously identifies as potentially classified by the inspector-general for the intelligence community and there's a bit of a bureaucratic dispute between the state department and intelligence community whether that should be classified at all. this story is beyond the clinton campaign's control. they're playing a game of cards
not only not deal but don't know how many cards are in the deck. we have more stories coming out like this again and again and puts a cloud over her entire campaign and makes it difficult for their message to get through. >> alex, thanks very much. we bring in kasie hunt, and let's show everybody this polling. according to our latest poll, donald trump beats clinton in iowa in a potential matchup but biden would beat trump. what is the mood among biden supporters? caveat in the poll that joe biden remains so attractive because he hasn't declared. it all changes the minute that he says he's running. >> that's entire true, and obviously hillary clinton has dealt with some of that over the course of the last couple months. one interesting thing that we learned from our poll, biden polls from hillary clinton and from bernie sanders, and so if he decided to get into the race you could see numbers on both of those sides change.
at this point he's getting down to the wire of needing to make a decision particularly about staff, about raising money. theren is aelement of time pressure. you saw him talking over the weekend, jogging through crowds, listening to people chant "run, joe, run" very classic joe biden type of moment. it really is about his family and particularly about his wife, jill biden and whether she would be on board for something that is an emotionally exhausting activity for months on end, right after the death of his son, bo. >> as we look at the issue of money and staff the vice president is sure-footed to be able to accomplish that, but the calendar, that's the biggest issue. we're running out of time for him to get in and be competitive. >> he is running out of time and it's much more difficult as a sitting vice president to raise the kind of money you would need. you can't simply, you know, drive into iowa, for example,
you have to fly air force 2, that costs a lot of money. that's what people at draft biden, the superpack have been trying to do, lay the first round of groundwork, connect with some of the major doebors, and you've had people in biden's inner circle reach out to people and say hey would you have room to give to the vice president if he said that he wanted to do this? but frankly, at this point he's really up against the clock and as we head toward even the first democratic debate is not that far away. >> kasie hunt reporting for us, great to see you, thank you. >> thanks, thomas. >> we turn our attention to capitol hill a major victory for president obama and the white house on the iran nuclear deal. three democratic senators said they're voting yes on the deal giving president obama the critical 41 votes needed to block republicans that are opposed to that agreement. not all democrats are on board. joe manchin told reporters today he must cast a vote against it. his no vote came on the heels of a fiery condemnation of the deal
from former vice president dick cheney speaking in d.c. this morning. >> arming and funding iran while simultaneously providing them a pathway to a nuclear arsenal is not an act of peace. it's not, as president obama claims, the only alternative to war. it is madness. >> as you see cheney's speech was briefly interrupted by a protesters carrying a paint flag shouting "dick cheney is a war criminal." kelly o'donnell, talk about this, is the deal done? >> reporter: well in terms of the legacy building for president obama and the democrats who support him, it looks like this is locked in, but what will happen over the next several days will be a lot of debate and conversation. in some ways intended to pressure those members who have not yet weighed in to sort of shift the numbers, but also to put pressure perhaps on a wider public, to galvanize support
before votes are actually cast, committing to vote one way is certainly a very big step for lawmakers but we have to remember this is where legacy meets policy and process. they actually have to go through the steps of debate and casting their votes. so this will be a heated period where the iran deal for those who believe it is the best choice toward diplomacy and those who believe it is a bad deal and there are other alternatives, they'll be fighting it out, so while the big end game might be visible to us, thomas, there's some road to go through and it will be contentious. >> kelly o'donnell, great to see you, thank you. coming up next, european countries prepare to take in hundreds of thousands of migrants and refugees fleeing the middle east, but that may not be enough as tensions are mounting across the continent. wait until you see these images of people trying to move on to a better life. plus the vatican announcing sweeping changes to their marriage annulment process. not everyone is celebrating the church's softening stance.
we'll explain. and the minnesota dentist whose killing of cecil the lion sparked worldwide outrage is back, he's back in his office today working. has there been a letup in the backlash? we'll take through. we are watching grayson, kentucky, any moment kim davis could emerge from jail after a judge ordered her release. we'll take you there, keep it locked in to "m msnbc live." cub. this cubicle. being irregular is the worst. get more fiber with chocolaty-chewy fiber one bars. feeling good can taste great
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developing right now a new call from the united nations today for more countries including the u.s. to step up to ease the refugee crisis currently swamping europe. this as german officials announce they will take in 500,000 asylum seekers every year. 800,000 refugees and mixwrants a migrants are expected in germany this year alone.
look at these images from hungary, the crisis reaching a tipping point, new video this morning showing hundreds of people breaking through a police line at a camp on the border with serbia. they've been waiting for buses to take them to budapest but only one came. hungary's defense minister resigned today as tensions mounted along the border. >> i don't have anything here. i have one, two blankets and for two children, okay? small children, my small children is 5 years, okay? she's sick. what can i do for them? >> nbc's kelly cobiella is on the ground in munich, germany. explain to us the example that germany is setting and how that word is spreading to those that are just beginning their journey back in syria. >> reporter: it's been an incredible welcome for refugees arriving in munich over the past three days especially when they
arrive at the train station, there are crowds to greet them, cheering them on, handing out gifts and candy to the small children. germany has said that they can handle these immense numbers of refugees and you hear another train announcement as we stand in the center of the munich station. germany said they can handle the large numbers of refugee, set aside more than $6.5 billion to pay for them. however, they're asking for other european neighbors to pitch in, and to that end the european commission president jean claude juncker is expected to announce a plan tomorrow to redistribute about 120,000 syrian refugees among all of the member states, the member countries. the question is, will they buy into it? germany has already set the example and said we are ready to welcome them in. thomas, of course the problem isn't go away and they do say
they need other countries to. as well. >> such compelling storytelling from you, from richard engel, bill neely. kelly cobiella in munich thank you very much. back at home fresh developments happening out of baltimore, maryland, where the family of freddie gray could receive a $6.4 million settlement from the city. you recall gray died in april one week after he was arrested, sustaining neck injuries while riding in a police van. the city's law department will submit the proposal tomorrow morning, the settlement would revolve all civil claims related to the city, police department, and individuals who may be held responsible for gray's death. the mayor of baltimore, stephanie rawlings-blake released a statement saying in part "the proposed settlement agreement going before the board of estimates should not be interpreted as a judgment on the guilt or innocence of the officers facing trial." on that front, six baltimore police officers face various charges in gray's death, from second-degree assault charge to
manslaughter. one of the officers faces a second-degree charge of depraved heart murder. they will all be tried separately. real fast we want to keep you up to speed what's happening in kentucky, earlier today we learned that a judge reversed his order of holding the rowan county clerk kim davis behind bars. she is going to be released. davis was found guilty of contempt for not adhering to a judge's ruling to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples in kentucky. as you see there, there was a growing swell of support, it was anticipated for 3:00 p.m. rally today. now news breaking that davis will be released, and not sure whether or not she's going to be going back to her job as the county clerk. her office did start issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples after she was put in jail. so we're going to take you back to kentucky and explain the
developments in that story and still ahead, walter palmer, the minnesota dentist at the center of a massive backlash for killing zimbabwe's beloved cecil the lion. he is back to work today. we'll tell you what he has to say after being two months in hiding. also a disturbing story out of san antonio, two high school football players could face charges for allegedly assaulting a referee during a game on friday night. now we are awaiting a news conference on that story, we'll have the details coming up. when i started at the shelter, i noticed benny right away. i just had to adopt him. he's older so he needs my help all day. when my back pain flared up we both felt it i took tylenol at first but i had to take 6 pills to get through the day. then my friend said "try aleve". just two pills, all day. and now, i'm back for my best bud! aleve. all day strong and try aleve pm, now with an easy open cap.
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attorneys moments ago who say she's still far from being vindicated. >> we have to go to the next step but nothing has been resolved. this doesn't resolve the matter to simply say don't interfere with these licenses because her name and authority are still on those licenses. >> so this is a look live pictures outside of davis' jail as supporters were going to be holding a rally of support for her coming up at 3:00 p.m. this afternoon. obviously this is a big development that happened before the 1:00 p.m. eastern hour news of her release is spreading quickly. republican presidential candidate mike huckabee is scheduled to speak at that rally. senator ted cruz was scheduled to visit her in jail today. i'm joined by robbie, the attorney for edie windsor, also the author of "then comes marriage" which comes out on october the 5th. robi, congratulations on the
book, again, coming out at the beginning of october on the 5th. explain what we're seeing here. these are fast-moving developments in kentucky. what is your reaction to the fact that this county clerk was held in contempt and jailed and now we're hearing she's going to be released in. >> yes, look, i think this has all become a kind of undue spectacle that was unnecessary. this isn't about kim davis. this isn't about being in jail. this is about the constitution, and about the constitutional rights of a huge segment of the american population, and the fact that it's the supreme court that has the right under our system of government to say what the constitution means. now that gay couples are getting licenses in this county in kentucky, there's no need for anyone to be in jail or for anyone to create a carnival-like atmosphere. all that needed to happen was gay couples had a right to get married. >> in releasing davis the judge said he's satisfied that the licenses are getting issued to those couples in need that want
them. the deputy clerks within davis' office are signing off on them now. do you think that's a legitimate reason for letting her out? because obviously she's willing to stand her ground. she's not going to go back to that position and issue marriage licenses under her name. have we just witnessed the perpetuation of an ongoing problem for kentucky? >> it's april a shame and unnecessary this became about kim davis. . issue is not about kim davis. what matters is that gay couples can get married in the entire state of kentucky, that's what's happening today. whether or not kim davis should continue to be the clerk of that county when she's unwilling to comply with the law that's a separate issue but that's not an issue that has to be dealt with immediately the way that the issue of people being able to get married is. >> one thing that you were part of in the history of our country was shepherding in this new social contract that we have with one another, and i think a lot of people might think that
means that you were able to do away with homophobia. that's not what happened with edi windsor's case, not what happened in other cases. homophobia still exists and we're witnessing that right now. >> my response to that, thomas, is i wish. i wish that winning either the windsor case or the other case would get rid of homophobia. i wish that there were courts that would get rid of racism and other forms of prejudice. that's obviously not going to happen. we're all human beings, we all have flaws. what is important in this case is the rule of law and the constitution. the judge has seen to it that's being enforced and that's what really matters. >> kim davis, though, as an american citizen, has taken the legal avenues that she feels she needed to to express herself about any religious concerns she has. i want to bring your attention robbie, a story in "usa today" about a muslim flight attendant says her airline fired her for refusing to serve alcohol. this is a practice that's
against her religion. i would think going into that work contract, she might have realized ahead of time that maybe within the service provider agreement that she would have to provide alcohol maybe to certain passengers but where does this debate end over religious freedom? >> this is the debate our country is having and discussion our country is having. kim davis is the easiest possible case because kim davis is a public servant. she she's sworn to uphold the constitution, upholding the rulings of the united states supreme court and the judge has seen to it that's what's happening. it doesn't matter it's kim davis doing it, it matters that someone is doing it. as for these other issues, the country will continue to discuss them. i'm convinced that americans do not, no american really believes that it's okay to not serve someone or treat someone differently solely because of who they are and i'm sure these issues are going to get dealt with pretty easily. >> i think what we're witnessing in this case is a demonstration of discrimination, obviously, but also cherry-picking from the
bible for convenience. we're still waiting, this is an image of kim davis potentially walking out any moment after the judge reversed her decision and decided to let her out. the book "then comes marriage" october 5th everybody can buy this. you take us behind the scenes inside the room of what it was like. you obviously present a very cool and collected presentation as a lawyer and as an individual, but what was it like behind the scenes? were you nervous? >> nervous would be a fair description of how i felt at that time. the book really goes into great detail about my nerves not only that day, but our nerves and our laughter and our jokes and worries throughout the entire case and how we got to where we were and how we dealt with it as we went along. >> and edie how is she doing? >> celebrating her 86 birthday, god bless her, doing terrific and coming back to the city next week. i can't wait to see her. >> we appreciate you coming in and lending your legal advice on this issue. again, the book is called "then
comes marriage" comes out ok the 5th. robbie kaplan, great to see you.. this story has become much more than a clerk's fight over relickious freedom and same-sex marriage. frances is back with a look at how the 2016 candidates for president are responding. frances? >> without a doubt, thomas, this has become a heated campaign issue. what are the candidates out there saying in let's bring them to you starting with ohio governor john kasich. the latest to speak out earlier today while campaigning in maine. let's listen. >> everybody's entitled to their opinion, and i love mike huckabee and what he stands for. i just think there's bigger fish to fry here in terms of the issue of people understanding what faith in god really means. >> and then there is chris christie, also chiming in saying in an interview today he would have found another solution. >> what i would do with this woman is move her to another job where this is not an ok section for her. we have to follow the law and the law has to be, these licenses have to be issued.
>> and former hp ceo carly fiorina gave a measured response, here it is. >> this woman now needs to make a decision of conscience. is she prepared to continue to work for the government, be paid for by the government, in which case she needs to execute the government's will, or does she feel so strongly about this that she wants to sever her employment with the government." >> and hillary clinton also weighing in, tweeting this, she says "marriage equality is the law of the land. officials should be held to their duty to uphold the law." gop front-runner donald trump took this position friday morning on "morning joe." >> the supreme court makes a decision, that's the law of the land, right? >> i, you have to go with it. you have to go with it. >> yes. >> the decision has been made and that is the law of the land. >> we will see what huckabee and ted cruz say after they meet with her today.
they've been the most outspoken candidates in support of davis, awaiting release from jail any moment now. what do you think when you come to this? it's our bing question of the day. whether kim davis was right or wrong to stand her ground on same-sex marriage and how are we looking with the score boards so far? single digits, 7% of our viewers believe she was in the right and 93% believe she was in the wrong. into reflects the folks talking to outside when we took our pulse question outside the streets of new york city reflects that as well. keep weighing in, pulse.msnbc.com. we'll bring you the results later on. we will go back outside as well and ask people hitting the streets who their thoughts are as well. >> frances, thanks. we look forward to that. i want to go back live to the scene, msnbc's sarah dallof is in grayson, kentucky, for us. what are you hearing from the ground, any new information from her attorneys, have they been informed about a time for her release? >> reporter: no new time or expected time on her release, thomas, either from her attorneys or from the jailer who
i've been speaking with. right now it's a lot of waiting and watching those doors there behind me, just a few seconds ago before you came to me her husband, joe davis, walked inside flanked by deputies to the cheers of the crowd. you just mentioned that scoreboard, taking that poll showing only 7% of people in your poll support kim davis. if you were to bring that poll here i can guarantee you it would be the exact opposite, the overwhelming majority of people here supporting kim davis and the actions that she has taken. the judge has issued that order. i want to talk to you a little bit about that. the playoffs filed a report at the request of the court stating that they were in fact able to obtain their marriage licenses. the judge said the court was satisfied that the county clerk's office was fulfilling its obligation because all qualified couples were able to get licenses. the judge has ordered her release but also ordered her not to interfere with the issuance of these certificates, basically not to order her deputies not to release this, so we're waiting to hear from kim davis on how
she plans to proceed, when she goes back to work, thomas. >> and sarah, just to clarify for everybody, when it comes down to how rown county was issuing any marriage licenses, they weren't anylong, correct, they stopped under her, under her purview of issues them to anyone, correct? >> reporter: that's exactly correct. right after the supreme court made their ruling, rowan county stopped issuing all marriage licenses to same-sex and opposite sex couples. several couples sued when the federal judge ordered her to begin issuing licenses to comply. she declined. that was when she was sent to jail in contempt of court. >> we'll keep an eye on the scene there as we anticipate seeing kim davis relieved -- released any time now. there was a 3:00 p.m. rally scheduled in support of kim
davis today. we'll keep an eye there in kentucky for you. still ahead, pope francis announces a new process to simplify the catholic procedure for marriage annulments. what that means for catholics across the country coming up. i work on the cheerios team. and when i found out that my daughter-in-law, joyce, can't eat gluten, we found a way to remove the grains that contain gluten, from the naturally gluten free oats that cheerios are made of. so now we can have cheerios together, anytime. heart health's important... ...so you may... take an omega-3 supplement... ...but it's the ingredients inside that really matter
that's not the ground leo put that down when your day goes on and on, you need 48 hour odor protection that goes on clear for no white marks. secret outlast clear gel. the american hunter who sparked a global outcry for killing cecil the lion is back to work today. minnesota dentist walter palmer hurried to the clinic's front door in bloomington accompanied by police escort. he set off this worldwide firestorm in july when officials said he illegally killed cecil. no charges have been filed and it hasn't stopped some patients from coming out to show their support for him. >> i'm going to tell him what my problem is and i'm going to ask for some help and i'm not going to bring this up. >> john yang a number of protesters stood outside the clinic earlier today. explain the scene now and also
palmer's willingness or not willing to speak to the press about what happened two months ago. >> reporter: the number of protesters, about the most we've had all day long, if mark can pan over, about a dozen here outside his office. interestingly earlier on, there was some friction a little bit of friction, there was some anti-abortion activists who were here complaining that these people were complaining about a lion being killed while human lives they argued were being taken in abortions but most of the people here are arguing that palmer should be extradited to zimbabwe to face criminal charges there. >> we want to see him punished. it's insane to me that he can walk back into work a month later and the police are sitting here actually protecting him when we know that what he did was illegal.
>> reporter: we should point out the police say they're here for crowd control actually, traffic and actually to control us, the large number of reporters and photographers here. the uniform people you saw escorting them in were actually private security that palmer has hired himself. palmer spoke out to the associated press and "the minneapolis star tribune" over the weekend. he said he had no idea that this lion was collared, that it was part of a study, and that it was named, it was so beloved in zimbabwe and that if he had known any of those things, he never would have taken it in this hunt. palmer says that is the only interview he's going to do, the only time he'll speak out. he says he's done talking to the press. thomas? >> nbc's john yang reporting for us there in bloomington, thank you very much, john, i appreciate it. a close eye in kentucky,
breaking news about an hour ago. kim davis will be released from jail, the judge saying after putting her in jail for contempt she can be released today, because her county clerk's office has gotten back in the business of issuing marriage licenses to those that live in the county and wish to get them. another live report from the scene from our sarah dallof. wall street today stocks have soared at the market open are another rough week. we had a holiday yesterday. as we look at the numbers now, green arrows across the board. the dow jones up by almost 300 points. e to fort green sheets. welcome to castle bravestorm. it's full of cool stuff, like... my trusty bow. and free of stuff i don't like. we only eat chex cereal. no artificial flavors, and it's gluten-free. mom, brian threw a ball in the house!
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taken by millions since 2001. vo: ask your health care provider about adding novolog®. it can help provide the additional control you may need. bill's got a very tough 13lie here...... looks like we have some sort of sea monster in the water hazard here. i believe that's a "kraken", bruce. it looks like he's going to go with a nine iron. that may not be enough club... well he's definitely going to lose a stroke on this hole. if you're a golf commentator, you whisper. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. this golf course is electric... pope francis is making yet another major announcement the for the catholic church today. the pontiff has reformed efforts for marriage annulments. couples around the world who decided they don't like their partners anymore will have an
easier time getting that marriage canceled. keir simmons is live in london. talk to us about the changes that are coming from the vatican and how it does make it a bit more simple for those couples who would choose divorce. >> a bit more, the right choice of words. it dpepds on how you review it. of course the catholic church is such an historic institution that any change might be a big deal and one catholic official making the announcement described it as one of the biggest changes for 300 years. it isn't a big change when you look at it closely. it is making the bureaucracy of annulling a marriage easier, quicker, if you like and the effect they hope will be that couples in the catholic church will not feel if they have to
forced to get a divorce. they will feel they'll be able to annul their marriage still within the catholic church and that will have a positive effect. pope francis in particular appears to believe that this will be important for the poor and of course as you know that is so often his primary concern, because what ended up happening is that trying to get an ann annulment has needed a lot of bureaucracy, sometimes needed lawyers, it costs money so that's been more accessible to people with more money than those without. so i think he thinks that's unfair and that he wants to try and change that. so it is when you look closely at it a bureaucratic change, a change in the detail rather than a huge change but equally a big deal for catholics and for the catholic church. >> really is an interesting development because so many gen rags of people, catholic that is, thought that divorced catholics were not welcome in church and you had to go the
extra mile to get at nullment and welcome back in church. this is a new development as we watch and admire the work of pope francis. nbc's keir simmons in london, thanks so much. a want to go back to the scene in kentucky, as i'm just learning that mike huckabee arrived on the scene, presidential candidate for the gop due there for a 3:00 p.m. rally today and msnbc's sra sraa dalof is there in kentucky. is the rally going to start sooner potentially with the news of kim davis' release coming shortly? >> reporter: i was talking to huckabee's team minutes ago and all bets are off ever since the development that kim davis is going to be released from jail. you can see the crowd behind me gathering since early this morning to get a place for the rally. they have a front row view to the release of kim davis. seconds ago mike huckabee and his wife flanched by security walked insited jail, meeting with kim davis before her
release. we received no word from the jail or legal team when that is going to happen and for a lot of people, this order by the judge for her release came as quite a surprise, her legal team recently filed several motions asking for the governor to intercede and not compel her over her religious objections to issue these licenses to same-sex couples. the judge's order says that the plaintiffs have been able to obtain their marriage licenses so he's satisfied that the county clerk's office is doing its job in providing all eligible couples with marriage licenses. it's important to note the rowan county clerks office stopped issuing all marriage licenses to same-sex and opposite sex couples following the supreme court's decision. several couples sued. the federal judge ordered kim davis to begin issuing licenses when she refused he found her in contempt of court and ordered her to jail where she's been now since thursday. she's aware of some of the frenzy surrounding this case.
we're not sure if she's aware of everything and the backlash on both sides across the country to the decision to jail her for refusing to issue marriage licenses. once licenses. no set time on when she will emerge. both mike huckabee and her husband joe presumably gone inside to reunite with her and see this crowd gathered, thomas. >> she was taken into custody on thursday and has remained there over the holiday weekend. roughly about 12:45 eastern time, sarah, we got the news about the update from the judge. and i know you have been witnessing the crowds there in anticipation of this 3:00 rally. have they started to swell as word has trickled out about kim davis' release? >> reporter: yeah. word was slow to come out. grabbing people to talk to them about their reaction, we were the first to tell some of the people but now the word is starting to travel through the crowd. you have heard some chanting of free kim davis.
you have the music. you have got some extremists, religious figures on bullhorns giving impromptu sermons from the crowd. this crowd is overwhelmingly in support of kim davis although going into town and talk to people not here we hear another side that either people support or support same-sex marriage and believe that kim davis as an elected official is to do her job and issue the marriage licenses to any couple regardless of same-sex or opposite sex. >> that's what i was curious about. especially for those that gathered on the scene, is their feeling that as an american citizen that she has a legal objection that she needs to be accommodated for or is it more of an anti-marriage equality sentiment for the people that have gathered? >> reporter: i would say the sentiment in the crowd that i have heard from people i talked to is that god's law, what the bible says, supercedes man's
law. we have people that have signs saying the supreme court does not make laws and biblical passages and a group of counter protester who is are preaching against the protesters. they say they're not being christian enough. you have all sorts of divisions amongst this crowd. just in clash of opposing viewpoints not only here but now on the national stage, in the gop presidential debate. you know, while mike huckabee is here and ted cruz to visit with davis, not all gop presidential candidates support kim davis in this fight. carly fiorina, john kasich, lindsay graham, all said that the supreme court ruled afric d is time for kim davis to do her job. >> keep us posted. we'll come back to you when we see movement and developments there. again, just joining us, recently, the judge in the kim davis case ruled that she can be released from jail after being taken into custody on thursday
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welcome back, everybody. we are watching a lot of images out of grayson, kentucky, where we expect any moment to see kim davis, the rowan county clerk freed from jail. she was taken into custody last thursday held in contempt of court for not issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples who came in to get them under her purview in kentucky. a judge feels the office is fulfilling the obligation as deputy clerks have been issuing licenses since she's been in custody. a 3:00 p.m. rally is scheduled and gop presidential candidate huckabee arrived on the scene to visit davis. ted cruz is expected there, as well. we're back with much more after this. our cloud can keep them safe and accessible anywhere. my drivers don't have time to fill out forms. tablets. keep it all digital.
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awaiting the release of county clerk kim davis. it was just a few hours ago that a judge ordered her release. these are live pictures from outside of the jail. moments ago, republican presidential candidate mike huk bee arrived on scene there. he's set to meet with davis and senator ted cruz to meet, as well. 3:00 p.m. rally was supposed to happen today. davis' supporters gathered outside of the jail an they were all there in advance of the 3:00 p.m. rally and then word started to spread the judge would be letting her out. nbc's gabe gutierrez spoke with an attorney moments ago and he had a message for the governor. >> act so that kim doesn't have to be here or have to come back here or any other clerk because she's not the only one in kentucky that's in the exact same position as she is. she is just the one most visibly targeted. >> so let's go right now and
bring in political correspondent kasie hunt. talk about this from a political aspect. on the right, it's divided some that are running for president as we have seen a majority of people speaking out saying, well, the law is the law. however, ted cruz and mike huckabee see it as an opportunity. >> the people that aren't coming and doing this the way cruz and huckabee are says more about the state of the republican field and this issue and the way gay marriage more broadly is playing out in the right in this presidential contest. it is not something a lot of candidates are eager to jump on. you have jeb bush, for example, seeking a much more middle ground on this saying we have to uphold the law as we try to respect the religious convictions and religious liberty is the phrase they're using at this point to talk about this but there's obviously a big difference of coming down, meeting with the woman in a public way and steering clear of the issue and i think it really
speaks to how fast attitudes changed on gay marriage in particular. you saw this in the wake of the supreme court decision, as well. that this isn't something that's instead of splitting the field or isn't unifying it, i'm sorry. so in this particular case, while, you know, even as few years as two or three ago you might have seen all the republicans unified behind the clerk, now, obviously, much less of a unified front there. >> it is very interesting because privately and maybe off the record you hear from certain candidate that is marriage equality is not a big deal. publicly, many of them can use the supreme court to say the law is the law. that's been decided and we can move on. it's interesting, though, to see the candidates to choose to decide to take an opportunity and create a wedge issue where there isn't one. >> i think, thomas, you also have some in the donor community, for example, even among republicans a lot of the
donor money is coming from places where people tend to overwhelmingly support gay marriage and scott walker, for example, ran into this and it was reported there's private conversations where donors concerned about how strident he was being in public on the issue and there's pressure that way, too, on a lot of republican candidates and the idea that this is a civil rights issue as opposed to a cultural wedge issue like abortion, for example. you always have abortion as something that really is a question that divides people very sharply that can be used as a cultural wedge. this one seems to be trending in a different direction and people are viewing it more along the lines of civil rights questions and that's playing out here with kim davis. >> i'll ask you to stand by and go to our colleague msnbc's sarah dahloff there in grayson, kentucky. have you heard anymore? we were talking in the last hour about whether or not the attorneys for davis heard about a proper time for her release. have we gotten more
clarification on that? >> reporter: we're waiting more for that clarification, thomas. this is a huge surprise to a lot of people including the legal team and fully admit the case has had a lot of twists and turns and talking with the jailer inside. he is also not giving me any sort of indication of when she is going to be released. she's got a huge crowd as you can see waiting for her to emerge out of the doors. a few minutes ago, we saw mike huckabee and his wife head inside to the cheers of the crowd. before that, her husband joe who's been out here every day greeting the protesters and the demonstrators holding a sort of vigil since she was ordered to jail by the federal judge in this case. this was supposed to be a rally for mike huckabee or excuse me a rally featuring mike huckabee to speak to the crowd, to encourage them, to support kim davis and quickly turned into a very unexpected event here. the release of kim davis.
now, she's spent five nights i believe in jail. she's been in a cell by herself, cell 151 and reportedly reading the bible to pass the time. now, her husband tells me that she is aware to some extent of the frenzy of the debate nationally now that it's surrounding her case. she had said multiple times she had no intention of changing her mind. i want to turn around. there is mike huckabee leaving the -- >> i think we have images of ted cruz, sarah. >> reporter: i apologize. i'm having a hard time seeing on the flags here. >> just to fill everybody in, images of ted cruz talking with mike huckabee. they're walking shoulder to shoulder. i think that was the image of a second ago and a cleaner shot seeing of ted cruz on the scene. mike huckabee being the first one to arrive at least through picture that is we saw, now ted cruz is on the scene. sarah, just to explain to
everybody the judge's ruling on this, the only reason he is letting kim davis out is because her office is now fulfilling its obligation to issue marriage licenses. >> reporter: that is correct, thomas. this is not a change of heart by the judge. the governor has not interceded as the legal team asked. what the judge specifically said in the order is plaintiffs in the case filed a report that they were able to obtain the marriage licenses and that the court is now satisfied that county clerk's office is fulfilling the obligation to issue licenses to all eligible couples. let's run you over the time line of this case. kim davis and the office stopped issuing any marriage licenses, same-sex or opposite-sex couples following the supreme court's ruling. several couples sued. and last month the judge brought her in. he ordered her to begin issuing licenses to all eligible couples. when she did not comply, he held her in contempt of court.
he could fine her or send her to jail. he sent her to jail last thursday where she's been ever since. >> is this in response to the davis legal team filing an emergency motion trying to get her out? explain that and the timeline. >> reporter: at no point in the judge's order does he reference these filings by the davis legal team. they filed these yesterday in hopes of seeing her freed. what they had asked is for the governor to intercede and not compel her to issue the licenses over the religious objections. she wanted her name and the office off of the licenses. in kentucky they're issued under the authority of the court's clerk's office and she felt it was basically her supporting same-sex manrriage and religiously she said she is against. what her legal team said is we're back to square one. as for the licenses, nothing
changed. her name, her office to the best of our understanding is still on the licenses. and in the order, the judge says she must not interfere with the deputy clerks issuing the licenses. issuing them to happy, same-sex couples on friday. they emerged from the court's clerk's office to cheers. they have 30 days after that to get married. so right now waiting to see exactly how this is going to play out. is kim davis going to go back into work? is she going to try to stop the deputies of continuing to issue the licenses, to same sex or opposite sex couples and essentially back to square one in the legal battle? >> boils down is any type of accommodation made for the motion and i'll just explain to everybody from her legal team, this emergency motion that you referenced argues that davis should be allowed an exemption from the governor's mandate on issuing gay marriage licenses because of her religious convictions. in this, they say the mandate commanding davis to affix her
name to same-sex marriage licenses violates the rights protected by the u.s. and kentucky constitutions. davis considers this to be an undue pressure on her beliefs. now, some of the characterizations that they equated this to is -- >> go get the cops. >> davis feels that this is forcing the religious -- the same as forcing the religious objecting nurse to perform an abortion, religious combatant to fire on an enemy shouoldier or participate in or attend the execution of a convicted prisoner. so, in many of the instances where they're claiming this religious objection, they're using instances of taking a life. again, this boils down to the rowan county clerk stopping issuing marriage licenses after the supreme court ruled that marriage equality was the law of the land. so anybody that came before kim davis in rowan county, kentucky,
denied getting a marriage license. this was vetted through lower courts, through those that were claiming discrimination, fighting for equality. under the law, to get marriage licenses. this went all the way with her appeals to the supreme court. she lost the appeals and when the federal judge back in kentucky then ordered her on thursday to be taken into custody for comp tempt. paul henderson is a long-time prosecutor and joins me on the telephone now. paul, when we think about this, an accommodation, a simple request that's been filed by her legal team, how easy is that to do for a government official in a kim davis case? >> it's not easy to do. and it's inappropriate to do. she ran for an office and she's not willing to execute the duties of her office according to the law. and let me clarify the distinction. you are allowed to exercise and
practice your religious beliefs but you are not allowed to impose your religious beliefs and that's the problem and the conflict that the court is forced to intervene on. and just so you know, this is exactly why the courts are now saying that they had to intervene and mandate that immediate action be taken and that they did not come up with some sort of accommodation for her or the rest of her staff because the rights of others were being interfered with on an ongoing basis. so this was not the kind of thing where she could practice or have her beliefs independently, her beliefs as she interprets them were interfering with the rights of others and why the court acted and that's why the court put her in custody and she was in for an indefinite period until she expressed a willingness to comply with the court orders or the court came up with some work-around. one of the things i think is really interesting about this
entire case is that this issue of her custody is not the deciding factor around this issue. there are a number of other legal issues surrounding kim davis and her behavior that are still ongoing. so we know that charges have or request has been made to the attorney general's office for misdemeanor charges of misconduct that are being contemplated brought against her for the nonexecution of her duties and that doesn't even speak to the number of civil suit that is are being addressed against her and her office personally and as a reminder, she may not have a shield of acting within the scope of her public/employee duty violating the law. so those are all on the table and the possibility of maybe an impeachment or a political recall if they get enough votes and there's a move to do that, as well. >> paul, so everybody knows, we are looking at video on the left
half hand side of the screen and when huckabee and cruz arrived a short time ago in advance of a 3:00 p.m. rally. people didn't know at the time they organized for 3:00 p.m. of movement in the potential release for kim davis. the judge has decided that the office of rowan county is fulfilling the obligation to issue marriage licenses. deputy clerks have been issuing them to all couples so they felt that since that was happening holding her in contempt was an unnecessary part of this case moving forward so after five days there, in jail, she's going to be released. it was just a short time ago nbc's gabe gutierrez also reporting from grayson, kentucky, he interviewed casey davis, davis is someone who as we know is not related to kim davis, but does have the same job in a neighboring county and he also has a religious objection to issuing same-sex
marriage licenses, o1 of 3 in 10 in kentucky that feels like kim davis did. >> we stopped issuing marriage licenses altogether, yes, sir. >> why? >> whenever the ruling came, june 26th, i could not in good conscious issue same-sex marriage license. so i try to be fair to everyone. always have. and so, as the fairest thing i could do is stop issuing to anyone. i felt that was fair to everyone. since then, you see today this is grown into something that it really does not have to be. there is a solution that's been presented to our governor. that could stop all this. keep an innocent woman out of jail. i realize he is she is released but she went to jail and that's a travesty it's come to that point in this country.
>> that is casey davis, a clerk in a neighboring county and suspended issuing marriage licenses with the same stream of consciousness that kim davis did because of the supreme court ruling saying that marriage equality was now the law of the land. and we are awaiting kim davis to be released from jail. again, the judge in this case feeling that since the rowan county clerk's office is issuing marriage licenses, the obligation is being met and she can be released. it does not deal with the ongang legal issue of her religious objection to wanting to issue those licenses. will she return to her job? that's the big question. we're back with much more after this. audible safety beeping audible safety beeping audible safety beeping
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the continuing coverage of what's happening in kentucky. breaking news just before 1:00. we got word that kim davis was going to be freed from jail. she was taken into custody on thursday because of the fact that she would not allow couples who were wanting marriage licenses to get them. to be issued under her watch. this all had to deal with her reaction and a religious objection to marriage equality and the ruling of the supreme court from this summer so across the board marriage licenses stopped being issued. you are looking at the images of the front door there of the jail and then on the side is ted cruz and lower right is mike huckabee arriving on the scene and coming in advance of a 3:00 p.m. rally today and then word funneled out the fact that the judge decided that the rowan county office is now meeting its obligation and that davis could be released. msnbc's sarah dahloff is joining
us. it doesn't clean up the legal question. >> reporter: that's exactly right, thomas. you know, the judge in his order to release her ordered her not to interfere with the deputy clerks issuing marriage line ls to couples. let's run you through the time line. after the ruling, the office did stop issuing any and all marriage lines to homosexual and heterosexual couples. several couples sued. the judge, the federal judge brought her into court, ordered her to issue the licenses. not complying on thursday of last week, he held her in contempt of court and ordered her to jail where she has been since thursday afternoon. now, we just spoke to our lawyers about what this order releasing her means and they said essentially it's back to square one because the judge
said your office because your deputies are issuing the licenses, your office is fulfilling the obligations and nothing legal he changed h ed h. the legal team asked the governor to step in. nothing legally has actually changed in this case so like her attorneys say, back to square one. now, you're taking a look right now at the massive crowd out here who had gathered in anticipation of a rally of mike huckabee supposed to take place at 3:00 and all planned way before the news of her impending release came. things are shifting around a little bit out here. we grabbed some people in the crowd to get their reaction to the news of her impending release. hear what they had to say. >> i think that she should stand firm on the beliefs and that, you know, in my opinion, the people who are under her they should stand firm on their
beliefs. >> reporter: and back here live at the crowd. we have seen both mike huckabee and ted cruz here on site. both supporting kim davis. not all gop candidates for president taking this position. carly fiorina, lindsay graham, john kasich all saying that the supreme court has ruled, thomas, and time for kim davis to do her job. back the you. >> msnbc's sarah dallof there on the scene of grayson, kentucky, keeping this live shot up and going to francis riviera, the bing pulse question having to do with kim davis and whether or not people agree with the action she's taken and you're asking people what they think. i think opinion will widely differ from what we're seeing in kentucky. >> reporter: yeah. that's exactly right. reflects of earlier taking the scoreboard from the bing pulse and showed 93% at that time of the viewers believe kim davis is wrong in the stand on same-sex marriage. that's a sentiment that ann
who's visiting here from georgia, as well. is she in the right or wrong and hear her story. >> i applaud the judge and i feel that she is in the wrong field if she can't upstand the law where we have rights to be protected. >> reporter: saying if they're beliefs she shouldn't have that job. >> exactly. exactly. >> reporter: interesting to see. a reflection and total opposite of sarah dallof seeing and also joining me is bruce also from the south. actually, i want you to listen and chime in. when you ask bruce, not yes or no or right or wrong coming to your answer. >> correct. it depends on her employment agreement. to start with. if her agreement is that she has to do her role correctly, and sometimes that means suppressing your own beliefs, she has to do that. if that's not in the role, if she can do whatever she wants and the employee's okay with that, she should be able to express her beliefs. my guess is she is in the wrong
because i don't believe she can do anything she wanted in any situation and may not be that clear in the employment agreement. >> reporter: she was elected to that the post of county clerk. she has to be impeached and other that is are issuing the marriage licenses and as far as that office goes, they are having the licenses issued. but in essence, this is developing quickly and about to be released from jail. the latest twist and turn, how do you feel about that? held in contempt, jailed and could be released. >> then why -- why even hold her? request f you're going to release her. >> reporter: interesting to see the developments. >> may be released. i don't think the process is over. in other words, probably be more steps so she doesn't necessarily have to stay in jail until the rest of the process is completed. >> reporter: we're watching and people are weighing in on whether she is in the right or the wrong standing with her beliefs. thank you so much for your responses. and if you've triggered -- this has triggered thoughts for you
at home, feel free to weigh in. bing.msnbc.com, thomas. >> thanks so much. we'll talk again here shortly. just joining us, we are watching and waiting to see kim davis' release. the judge has ordered that she shall be released based on the fact that rowan county, that's where she serves as county clerk, in her stead, with her being in custody, has started to issue marriage licenses. and because of that fact, the judge feels that he can go ahead and release her. she was taken in custody for contempt. she has religious objections to issuing marriage licenses since the supreme court ruled in favor of the marriage equality over the summer. msnbc's kasie hunt is watching the story and joins me from washington, d.c. explain how this is not so much one of political hot potato but of interest. >> you have seen pictures of
mike huckabee and ted cruz both coming this rally to put the spotlight on this woman. what you haven't seen are the other dozen-plus republican candidates doing is same thing. from that perspective, you have a difference of opinion and the overwhelming number of candidates in the republican field have said -- stayed further away from this than cruz and huckabee wanted to. if you think about the candidates they are, huckabee is a past baptist preacher and the staff organized a lot of people that you are seeing there today. they have had staff on the ground for the past couple of days and something that they have worked really hard on. cruz's approach to this particular event is different. we found out more at the last minute that cruz was going to make an appearance there. you know, this is how huckabee, for example, won iowa in 2008. he's a pastor that understands the evangelical voters, people to care a lot about a story like this. you also see cruz as somebody
who needs that same group of people if he hopes to win in iowa this time around and you have seen, of course, he travels with his father rafael cruz, also a pastor. actually bumped into him in an iowa airport without his son a couple of weeks ago and he is doing a lot of groundwork. i think you saw pictures of him and we have to confirm that with the campaign but i think for these two, this is very much an issue that's resonating with a segment of the republican base to be there but when you look at more broadly how this is affecting the overall field, it tells a different story about the country going on same-sex marriage, where it has gone in really such a brief period of time, thomas. >> thanks so much. we'll take a quick break and we'll be right back. i was out for a bike ride. i didn't think i'd have a heart attack. but i did. i'm mike, and i'm very much alive. now my doctor recommends a bayer aspirin regimen to help
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rowan county clerk kim davis. showing you live images of what's taking place there as people gather outside of the jail which is in carter county and they're going to be holding a rally coming up at 3:00 p.m. eastern time. davis spent several days, five nights in jail, contempt for refusing to issue marriage licenses. her attorneys are scheduled to address the media coming up shortly. it was moments ago, though, that republican presidential candidates ted cruz and mike huckabee arrived to meet with davis. huckabee will attend the rally coming up this afternoon. earlier, msnbc's sarah dallof spoke with some of the protester there is to support davis. >> the law's the law. so i mean, if you do not want to obey the law and you think that's not right, maybe you should not be in office. >> i don't think she should have been sentenced to jail. i think she should have been issued a fine and had to resign her job. >> i don't think she should have
put here in the first place. she's too good of a person. she's standing for what's right. >> msnbc's sarah dallof live on the scene for us. explain as we're looking for the rowan county clerk held at the carter county detention center. >> reporter: it was the closest facility is what the jailer told me in and allowed the family to visit her while she was jailed, basically. this is a county facility. it was in federal court but they have an agreement with the u.s. marshal service. that is why she is held here since thursday. five nights since she was found in contempt of court. this is really become somewhat of an impromptu christian church service praising kim davis for a stance that the people in the crowd believe was right. now, when the supreme court first issued ruling, kim davis'
office stopped issuing any marriage certificate, whether to same-sex couples or opposite-sex couples. several couples sued. when she went to court, the judge ordered her to begin issuing the certificates. when she refused on thursday, he found her in contempt of court. she was kept in jail over the weekend. we have mike huckabee and ted cruz to visit with her. the judge's order today just after noon eastern time a big surprise to a lot of people including the legal team. the plaintiffs basically filed a report saying they obtained the marriage licenses. the judge ruled that the court is satisfied that the county clerk's office is fulfilling the obligation. they started issues licenses to same-sex couples on friday. in this corder, she ordered she be released and not interfere
with the issuance of licenses to same-sex couples and here's where it gets tricky, thomas. in kentucky, all marriage licenses are issued under the authority of the court clerk. her name and title are on that license. and she feels that the governor should make a special accommodation to allow her name and title to be removed from the license, thus allowing her to basically not issue these under her authority, her religious beliefs. she say prohibits her from supporting same-sex marriage. we're wait rg for kim davis to leave the jail and then waiting, thomas, to see what she does when she gets out of work because, basically, nothing has been changed on that certificate. the legislature has not intervened. the governor has not intervened. instead it was the judge saying, yes, your deputy clerks have begun issuing licenses and thus you are fulfilling your duty by issuing marriage licenses to all eligible couples so here's where we stand right now, thomas.
>> all right. sarah dallof, thank you. we are seeing gop presidential hopeful ted cruz, senator ted cruz, on site to meet with kim davis. walking out the front doors of the carter county detention center and we saw on the scene there and there was a scheduled 3:00 p.m. rally. we are not sure exactly what takes place now featuring both men or still in attendance of that, waiting for kim davis to be let go. kasie hunt is watching and with me right now to talk about this. the benefit politically for a ted cruz or a mike huckabee showing up here is what? >> well, thomas, i mean, by putting themselves front and center at this rally, they're speaking directly to a crowd particularly of evangelical voters and frankly play a very significant role in the iowa
caucuses. you saw that 2008 and 2012. when we talk about the evangelical religious conservative right that often picks this candidate as an alternative to the establishment out of iowa, that's the group of people that's going to be paying really close attention to what's going on here. you heard sarah -- >> it looks like kim davis just walked out. forgive me for interfering. >> you're fine. >> she just walked out. i think had her hair in a braid with a green shirt on. to walk up to cameras. as we can see, crush of reporters with their cameras there from front of this red truck and mike huckabee and following her and she was walking out, again, i believe wearing a green shirt. not sure if we have a camera on that location to be able to hear if she is speaking directly with reporters right now and fielding questions. moments ago, kim davis walked out the door, there she is, moments before we saw kim davis
walk out the door, ted cruz walked out. both governor mike huckabee and senator ted cruz were anticipated to be on site today for a 3:00 rally in support of kim davis. nobody knew about the judge's determination basically finding that since rowan county had met its obligation to fulfill marriage licenses to those that were coming in to seek them, that's to all couples, whether they are heterosexual or gay and les byian couples, the office was now giving those out through her deputy county clerks. they felt that she had met the contempt obligations, spending five nights in jail. the bigger question now, will she be getting her job back? and i'm going to -- keep me posted with a live feed of any of the sound and -- okay. just keep me posted. on set is charles coleman jr., a former prosecutor and civil rights attorney. charles, great to have you with
me. you watch. she walked out the door. obviously, the judge can't hold her behind bars forever. there needs to be some type of determined function of this woman to return to her job. so does she have a job to return to? can the deputy county clerks? >> as of now, she does have a job to go back to. i think the interesting thing in terms of how this thing continues to develop to see whether they agree to remove her name from those certificates. that's something that she and the attorneys petitioned for in the court of appeals and if that's granted, then there seems to be no barrier in terms of continuing to perform the job in that function. what's interesting to note is that they've tunnel it in the way of seeking a religious accommodation and kind of sort of turned this into an employment case with respect to what they're asking for in front of the 6th sirte i can. presumably to go back to work
and everything would be fine and if not there's other questions of what would be her purpose continuing in that role. >> is there a case law perspective to look at here that would facilitate an example of this? >> i think from a religious accommodation piece, absolutely. there's tons of case law to support accommodation being made for a religion. obviously, the most recent ruling by the supreme court ultimately opening the gates to same-sex marriage is -- has created somewhat of a legal question of how to play itself out with respect to employees seeking religious accommodation to circumvent having to deal with gays or same-sex couples seeking to get married but i do think in terms of religious accommodation, there's press debit for it and it can be done. the question will be whether the 6th circuit views it in the way that the attorneys couched it. >> also, what does it mean for the people of rowan county who have tried to get a marriage
license? now, whether they're gay or les byian or not and show up and divorced or a straight couple through something that biblically might be abhorrent to her, as she is using the excuse of marriage equality, do they all have civil cases against rowan county now for her using marriage equality as the reason they stopped issuing marriage licenses to anybody? >> tom, the question boils down to one of damages because they would be able to show -- they would need to be able to show in order for them to sustain an action that they, in fact, were affected by not being able to get those licenses for whatever period that they were. and they would need to be able to monetize the damages or explain whatever monetarily they suffered and not being able to get it. i think because it's a short amount of time and now issuing licenses both to gay and straight couples, they would have a difficult time being able to show, hey, these are the
damage that is we lost and this is why we should be able to prevail and be compensated for it. >> stand by for me. i want to go back to sarah dallof. we witnessed kim davis walk out. ahead of her ted cruz and then mike huckabee. i'm not sure if you can see if she's talking with reporters or not. >> the media scrum is surrounding her, thomas. so thick you can't see her at the moment. a lot of people wanting to hear what she has to say following the five nights of inkars vags in the carter county detention center. her exit from the jail was very understated. there was no announcement, no forewarning and quietly walked out. she went to the right. ted cruz to the left and immediately surrounded, swept up by the scrum of media cameras. to this crowd of thousands gathered, she is a symbolic christian soldier in the fight
against gay marriage not only here in the community but the nation, as well. while for a lot of people become a symbol of the bigotry and the discrimination same-sex couples face in this country. so she's receiving a lot of attention. her husband told me, yes, she is aware of the controversy surrounding her case but it remains to be seen if she's aware that it is grown quite this large. i've spoken to people driven hours, one man that drove two days to be here. they felt it was important. they be here to support kim davis. let's run you through the time line again briefly. the office ceased issuing marriage licenses both to heterosexual and homosexual couples following the supreme court decision. several couples sued. she went in to court. the judge ordered her to begin to resume issuing marriage licenses. when she didn't, he pulled her back into court again on thursday. and after speaking to her for a few minutes, he teld her in contempt of court and ordered her to jail where she's been
ever since. never a crowd in large but demonstrators all weekend keeping a sort of vigil here outside the detention center, praying for her release. singing songs and right now waiting to hear her speak and what she is going to say. this crowd gathered here in anticipation of a rally of presidential candidate mike huckabee and ted cruz announced to come here and we expected everything to get started about 3:00. the judge's order came as a surprise to everyone and now here we are waiting to hear kim davis speak, thomas. >> stand by for a second as i have just gotten some information about some of the things we're hearing from her legal team saying they have requested this accommodation for her religious convictions. she will do her job and she won't violate the convictions. one thing that mike huckabee said that the courage of the convictions was more important than her own freedom. some other comments that have been made is she is a different
woman than she was four and a half years ago. and another statement, she loves god, people, her work and she will not betray any of those three. sarah, explain to all of us, though, the set-up for 3:00 p.m. and the rally as i'm hearing and speaking at the rally and not speaking to the substance of any pending case. >> reporter: yeah, that's a great question, thomas. everything changing very fluidly out here in this situation. unfortunately, this is what a lot of people want to hear, the comments on the case and what she will do going back to her job because essentially as her lawyers put it, we are kind of back here at square one. because she had asked in this latest legal motion that her attorneys filed, she had asked the governor to make accommodations to allow her not to violate the religious beliefs and allow her name and her title to be removed from the marriage
licenses. in kentucky, all marriage licenses issued under the authority of the county clerk and she argued that what her name and title on here, she was supporting same-sex marriage and wanted her name and title off of those licenses. >> sarah, explain to us, though, it's very fluid. things changed now because of her release and participate in this rally. was there already a dedicated spot there at the detention center where they were going to be holding a rally or a place to feature cruz or huckabee speaking? >> reporter: yeah. it was all planned. things have changed but the infrastructure is actually already in place because of the rally. they brought in the flat bed truck with a platform for speakers, risers for the choir. all of this has been set up in anticipation of this rally at 3:00 p.m. with mike huckabee and adjusting things and now instead of the headliner speaker
huckabee it's kim davis and what she will say to the crowd. >> we got a tweet from mike huckabee a short time ago. it also included a picture saying i was honored with meet with kim davis. a woman of faith and strong conviction. shows kim davis' husband by her side. you had a chance to see him or speak with him earlier today and he spoke about what this means? >> reporter: i've spoken with joe -- pardon me, thomas. i've spoken with joe several times over the last couple of days. he describes himself and i wrote as a good old country boy who's standing by his wife's side. he said throughout the ordeal or this case that kim has never had any intention of changing her mind, of changing her convictions and he was prepared to wait as long as it took for the case to resolve itself and joked around -- he joked around that he was taking care of the house. she had given him instructions
on what bills to pay and proud of his wife, keeping her updated on the people who were gathering outside in her support. i had asked him have you also talked to her about the other side, the people who think she is in the wrong who say that the supreme court has made their decision and time for her to do her job? he hemmed and haued and said she was aware that people disagreed and did not go into detail about the extent to which she was aware. there is a very opposing viewpoint in this case. >> so we're also getting word of ted cruz with a statement on the website now. asking -- saying i call upon every believer, every constitutionalist, every lover of liberty to stand with kim davis. also learning from her attorneys she plan to go back to work saying that she will not abandon her job. sarah, for some of the people you have had an opportunity to speak with, do they feel that she should be impeached if she won't resign? >> reporter: no. they absolutely do not feel that
she needs to be impeached. the people i have talked to said she needs to hold strong in the beliefs and they believe that the legislature will support her in this. interestingly enough, kim davis ran and was elected to the position as a democrat. she cannot be fired. must resign and a new person elected in the next cycle or the legislature can impeach her in this case. so, people here do not believe that impeachment would happen. they feel if she stands strong and sticks to her convictions this case will resolve itself in her favor. the governor will make the accommodations to allow her to continue to do her job without violating her religious beliefs. >> all right, sa rachlt thanks so much. stand by for me. governor mike huckabee, as we have seen on site there for kim davis' release coming to be a part of the 3:00 p.m. rally, having an opportunity to meet with kim davis. obviously, during his time in travel there, that's when we got word about the fact that the
judge would be releasing kim davis. we saw her walk out just ahead of mike huckabee a short time ago and he and his wife tweeted an image with kim davis and her husband. in that tweet he said i was honored to meet with kim davis, a woman of such strong faith and conviction. again, coming up at 3:00 today, there will be a rally on site there where the lawyers for davis have said that she will be a part of that. she's going to be able to speak but not really speaking to the substance of any pending case that she does plan to go back to work. won't be abandoning her job. msnbc's kasie hunt is watching with me and seems that this is an opportunity for mike huckabee and ted cruz to reach out to those in base level support and we see mike huckabee about to take the stage and speak out in favor of what kim davis was standing up for and try to get their support up before the next
republican debate. do you think that this is going to help their standing before that next baebt? >> well, thomas, i don't know about the debate necessarily but i do think if you look passed those types of events to the first round of primaries and caucuses this is something that appeals directly to the evangelical conservative right in the republican party and that makes all the difference in the world in iowa as mike huckabee knows. he is a pastor himself. won there in 2008 on the strength of communication with that community. >> forgive me. i want to jump in and listen. they just started the rally. let's listen. >> inside the walls of this jail. we both have an important announcement to make regarding kim davis. >> before we do, you will have a chance to see kim in a moment. we've got an announcement and it is this. >> kim davis is free!
>> kim will be coming at the end of the program to say thank you. she is not going to comment on the case. she's not making any direct media statements today. we want to respect her today as she's getting out of jail for the first time in six days. and for the first time today in six days she is able to hug and kiss her husband joe. we want to allow her to have some time today and tonight with her husband and she does want to come out at the end to thank owl of them and then for the media we'll talk to you and make
whatever arrangements we need to to move forward. we'll start the program and kim davis will come out at the very end to say thank you for your prayers and for this amazing day. thank you. >> so listening there to one of came davis' attorney with governor mike huckabee trying to say in unison to everybody that kim davis is free. they'll start the rally that they had anticipated to begin at 3:00. and then as we heard, kim davis will be coming out. she is not going to speak about the pending litigation was to people thank them for their time and support after she was released today. these are just some of the images just to remind you and here's some of the first video seeing of moments ago kim davis when she was released and first
appearing before cameras, flanked by her attorney and governor mike huckabee. and can we listen in to this? >> we thank you all for coming. obviously we have had a major bonus today to be able to see kim davis released. she has been away from her husband and her family for six days. she's only been able to visit joe on one day on sunday for a brief while through glass. today they were able to hug each other for the first time in five, six days. and so we want to be able to give kim some opportunity to go back with her husband joe and to just rest for the rest of the day. but she won't be making any specific statements to the media today regarding the substance of the case. we will address that later this
week. kim is someone who's loyal to god and she is loyal to her job and to her people. and she plans to be back at work this week. but i can guarantee you knowing kim she loves god. she loves people. she loves her work. and she will not betray any of those three. she'll did her job good. she'll serve the people as they want her to serve and she was elected and she'll be loyal to god and she's not going to violate her conscience. so he's released today and we are certainly rejoicing in the release. but the court order did not resolve the underlying issue and that issue is kim davis has asked for a very simple accommodati accommodation. remove her name and authority from the marriage certificates and that's what we have asked from the very beginning. kim still is asking for that today. and we'll continue to ask for that in the future. we believe that the court could
act on that. we believe the governor could act on that and we believe the kentucky assembly can act on that, as well. either way, we are still asking for kim davis and others like her to have her conscience and religious convictions accommodated. kim's life was drastically changed four and a half years ago when her mother-in-law had a dying wish for her to go attend church and she did and she gave her life to jesus and her life has been drastically changed since then. and she is a different woman than she was four and a half years ago and that's what really is behind kim. if you get to know this lady and i know you will, a lot of you wanted to talk to her and we'll make available what we can respecting her time and her privacy, but if you get a chance to know kim, she is the most amazing individual who's at peace even in this jail cell and
she is someone who encourages you when you try to encourage her. [ inaudible ] kim davis will not violate her conscience. >> will her deputies be able to issue same-sex licenses? that's part of the provision of the judge's order right now. >> will she stop the deputy clerks? >> kim davis cannot and will not violate her conscience. >> how difficult were the past few days? >> can you tell us what it was like for you in the past few days in jail? what did you do? >> all has been well. >> kim, can you step up closer to the mike to talk about the experience of the last few days? >> she's going to do that at the appropriate time. kim has gone through an incredible amount and today it's been an emotional day. she had no idea this was coming
and she's just now had a few moments to spend with joe. >> -- she'll do that at the rally. >> she'll speak and give thank you to those people who are here that came at the rally. she's not going to speak about the substance of the case. she is going to thank the people that are here. >> not violating the conscience doesn't answer the question. >> you'll find out in the near future. >> will she be back in the morning? >> we've had the same request. accommodate her religious convictions. there's a simple way to do that. >> does this keep her out of jail for good? >> she'll do her job and not violate the conscience. >> governor? >> i want to say thank you for her representation of kim and thanks to this incredibly brave lady who decided that the courage of her convictions was more important than simply even her own freedom. and she was willing to go to jail for what she believed.
she has ignited something across this country where people are tired of the tyranny of judicial action that takes peoples' freedoms away, takes basic fundamental rights and puts them in jeopardy and a tyranny of a court that believes that it can make up law and somehow find a way to enforce it. i told kim today that i feel like she's shown more courage than most any politician i know and most every pastor i know. because she's not only said something, she's been willing to put her life at risk to follow the christ that came into her life four years ago and that's a bold declaration of the authenticity of her faith and the reality of it. the fact that so many people have come from all over the country to be here at this rally today for her, they came because they wanted her to be free. what we could not have known and this was planned a week ago, on
the day that everyone comes, they get to watch her walk out of this jail. but we stand with kim today, with gratitude, and appreciation, and for her husband joe who i appreciate for standing with his wife and in no way doing anything other than being proud that she was willing to pay the price to even go to jail to maintain the clarity of her conscience. kim, we are all grateful for you and thank god for you. delighted to be with you today and standing with you today. >> governor -- >> mr. huckabee -- >> the judge told her she cannot interfere with the process of handing out the licenses. what do you advise her to do going to work tomorrow? >> that's a legal question for her but i've already told her that if somebody needs to go to jail, i'm willing to go in her place. i'm tired of watching people being just harassed because they
believe something of their faith. and we cannot criminalize the christian faith or anybody's faith in this country. and i'm praying that there will be remedies that do not involve putting someone in jail for their convictions, especially when the issue is whether the courts can just make a law out of thin air and then somehow try to apply it and punish people for not obeying something that's not a law. >> on friday, some licenses were issued. we're told by some people that mrs. davis' name was not actually on the license. is that the case? or not? and if so, what does she plan to do tomorrow? >> the licenses issued were issued without the clerk of rowan county and not valid. they -- there are criminal laws in kentucky that say that if you issue a